Collecting and Running Old Lionel Post War Trains

Ultimate Lionel Layout 1950's

It's been some time since I updated this blog. I recently posted a short video on the Instagram feed for My eBay Store     It is a video of one of my old O27 Gauge postwar steam engines zipping along on my train layout(s). 

A far shortened version of the above video has drawn a good response, with people asking for more such posts. The conclusion, a lot of folks seem to love old toy trains.

There are a few aspects to collecting old toy trains, especially old toy trains. Most people who collect toy trains also like to run them but therein lies the quandary. Preserving the value of a collectible vs running it and wearing down its collectible value.

Playing with old trains 

For this post - Lets focus on running the old trains. While they are cool, the older trains are quite antiquated in their features and operation. They last longer in terms of running, but they have their limitations compared to the newer toy trains. Honestly, it takes huge amount of patience as they can be frustrating to operate and run. After all they are 60 to 70 year old toys!

If you decide to run your old trains on the original style tracks you will face certain limitations too, such as limited availability of new replacement O-gauge and O27-gauge 3 rail tracks.  

The O-gauge trains run best on the O-gauge Track and need larger radius curves.  The O27 track is lower profile and can have a tighter turn. You can tell the difference in the trains scale as the O-gauge versions of the Locomotives, the engines and cars have THREE Number designations while the O-gauge have FOUR numbers.  

O27 is a gauge of its own and was very popular with the old Lionel "postwar"  trains. Below is an O27  "2020".   The photo below that shows the O-gauge version, the 671.

Lionel O27 gauge 2020

Lionel O gauge 671

Keeping the layouts simple is often best with the older postwar trains. A lot of them don't work well over switches ( turnouts) either. Here are some basic layout ideas from the original Lionel manuals.



For an old train runner, you probably don't want to give a child the old train as a runner, you are better off buying a new or newer set which are designed for better and easier play for kids. 

Newer Lionel Pennsy Flyer w Lionel Chief remote control

If you plan on running the old trains, you probably don't want or need ones that are in the top grade of the collectors scale. The very good C6 grade probably works best for operational runners although I still gently run my C7 and C8 grade trains.  Here is a brief breakdown of grading from C6 and higher:

C6 Very good: Minor scratches and paint nicks, minor spots of surface rust, free of dents, may have minor parts replaced.

C7 Excellent: Minute scratches and paint nicks, no rust, no missing parts, no distortion of component parts. 

C8 Like New: Complete and all original: No rust, no missing parts, may show affects of being on display and/or age, may have been run. 

C9 Factory New or Brand New: All original, unused, may evidence factory rubs and the slightest evidence of handling, shipping and having been test run at the factory. (Lionel test ran every engine they shipped!)

C10 Mint-Brand New: All original, unused and unblemished. (C-10 is non-existent unless the item is in a sealed unopened box)

The Original Boxes can also be a key factor for a collectible. Sometimes the original box itself can be worth more than the original contents.

Track Layout wise, anything larger than a single basic loop that is 8' or 9' by 4' or 5' wide will need additional power taps from the basic transformer such as a cw80. 

Basic Wiring from cw80 to a small basic loop

Back of cw 80 Transformer

More lockons or solder wires to the track will be needed to properly power farther points on larger loops:

I would suggest to start smaller and simpler, then work up to larger layouts. Perhaps start with two separate loops with independent power, one inside the other.  Having at least two trains running at the same time on the layout is more fun and looks better. Make sure you have the space so you don't have to keep tearing it all down, as even the smallest O27 or O gauge layout still needs a good deal of space. 

Curve and height differences for O gauge & O27 

An 8' x 4' table or more realistically a 10' x 6' is best for a decent smaller O27-gauge or O-gauge layout. If possible, avoid using the smallest of the curves like the O27 - 27"curve. Instead, use 31" or 36" inch curves at minimum, because you will be able to run more trains with more cars. On the smaller 27" curves, you will only be able to use a limited range of engines which can only pulling a small number of cars around such tight turns. The larger radius curve track provide more choices and fun too. 

More details on scale and other items regarding getting old trains to run can be found within our blog archives. 

As demand and interest warrants, with time permitting, I will publish more articles on this whole subject. 

You can also check out and visit my eBay store of various items by -

click this link to visit my store 

Note: We currently do not have a large inventory of 1940s - 1950s Lionel as these items sell out fast and it is getting harder to find and source good quality Postwar Lionel items, and I have a very hard time parting with any I  find. 

Happy Railroading and shopping!

  Lionel Trains 671 Pennsylvania S2 Turbine 

 

PostWar Lionel Trains 671

To the left is a photo of a 1946 Lionel Trains Toy Train model 671 and coal tender. It was a toy train that was notably reliable and heavy, entirely made of all metal construction.

In real life, the S2 Turbine prototype emerged out of a project by the Pennsylvania Railroad to create the ultimate Steam Locomotive. The real life S2 Turbine instead became a monument to the end of the steam era locomotives.  The S2 was a short lived project for P.R.R.

The real life S2 prototype ( photo below) was the real life locomotive that Lionel Trains based their models of this line. Both the real life and the toy train models were produced in the declining years of the steam era.  

The real life version was powered by a 6900 horsepower Westinghouse direct steam turbine engine. The Pennsylvania S-2 from the 1940’s was an attempt at holding on to the age of the steam engine. Many of the railroads had a large interest in coal as many of the railroad companies also ran coal companies.   However the age of diesel power was on the rise. 

The constant torque of the rotary turbine eliminated the power loss found in the reciprocating parts of a conventional steam locomotive. Even though the massive 6-8-6 weighed almost one million pounds, the S-2 exceeded the performance of a 6000 horsepower diesel above forty miles per hour. 

Due to high coal consumption, the S-2 prototype failed to have any commercial success and a second locomotive was never manufactured. The age of steam was quickly reaching its end. By the mid 1940's most railroads were making more use of Diesel engines and allowed their steam engines to faze out.

Despite the fate of the real life S2 Turbine venture, Lionel Trains created several very popular model recreations of this Turbine locomotive.   For Lionel Trains, their toy train turbine models were a huge success. 

The first of the PostWar Lionel Trains "turbines" were  introduced in 1946 and ran until 1955.  Lionel Trains made many thousands of these turbine models from their New Jersey factory, which include model numbers 681, 682 and the 027 gauge 2020.  These model train turbines remain very popular with Lionel Trains collectors and operators. 

 More recently in the Lionel Trains product lines, The Turbine has been resurrected in the higher end of Lionel Products. These are breathtaking in detail and have far more " Bells and Whistles " and even more detailed features than their postwar predecessors. 

 Thru Lionel's popular recreations of the S2 Turbine in their model train lines, both past and present, the age of the steam locomotive will likely continue to endure in the public imagination for many generations to come.

Happy Railroading!





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Bringing Old Trains Back to Life for Christmas - Part 2

A practical alternative to setting up your prized family heirloom postwar trains would be to just keep the older trains for display or just for yourself and buy one of the NEW Ready to run sets from Lionel.   

OR You can set up both - an old and a new display. Why not? Just set up two separate loops.

 There are cooler features in the newer Lionel ready to run sets which younger train fans will enjoy. Others around you will not have the same emotional attachment to your old trains. You will also enjoy the cooler new features of the newer trains. 

Let me preface by stating, I am not a paid endorser of Lionel directly or indirectly.  I am not a paid endorser of any train makers or toy train dealers that may be mentioned in this blog.

 

There are some excellent choices in regards to the new ready to run sets, but I will focus on one. For about $200 or even less, you can have a NEW fully ready to run O Gauge set with an oval of track, a metal bodied locomotive with smoke, lights and sounds, four or five freight cars, an engineer figure in the cab, all of which will work works by a simple to use remote control. The Lionel Chief remote IS included. 

These newer trains will also work on your older / existing layout. Speaking as a toy train enthusiast, operator and collector for more than 40 years, in my experienced opinion, if you are a steam locomotive era fan, one of the best choices is the Pennsylvania Flyer Lionel Chief ready to run. 

The Lionel Pennsylvania Flyer LionChief locomotive is sturdy.  The train set includes the locomotive, the coal tender, a boxcar, a tanker and caboose. It would be nice if the caboose was lighted too. Each car has die-cast metal trucks with operating couplers. ( operating track section needed and sold separately)

The train also features metal handrails and ladders on many of the cars. There is a great deal of attention to detail which has always been a hallmark of Lionel trains.

The detail and craftsmanship on the locomotive and all the train cars is sharp. 

Depending on the variation, the locomotive is all black with a matte-gray front.  Some are a dark “Brunswick” green. The cabin number for the train we have is number 421 and stamped in gold. The bell and whistles on top of the locomotive are gold colored. The locomotive body is metal. 

You can add additional train cars to this set and the locomotive's should be able to pull quite a few of them. I have put as many as 14 and the locomotive pulled them without issue.  The track setup becomes the limiting factor before the locomotive. Most trains will pull much longer trains but you will need to expand beyond the basic track kit and use much larger ( less sharp ) curves which also means more space.

Features

The tender connects to the locomotive, and the tender powers the speaker on the bottom of the tender. To activate the speaker, you need to make sure the switch is on.

When in the on position with the tender connected, the flyer makes a variety of different sounds. When the train is sitting idle on the tracks, the speaker issues a rumbling noise of the locomotive staying idle. The sound created when the train is in motion will cause enjoyment for all. The sounds of the running locomotive are fantastic. It has a deep tone that starts gradually builds up to a fully puffing steam engine, like a real steam train.

The Locomotive has a whistle, announcements and bell noises that are all controlled with the remote.  If you go to the link to Lionel below, they have a demo of these sounds you can play. 

Here is the link -->   Click here to go to lionel.com

A key feature of Lionel Chief Sets is that without a lot of added complicated control gear, a child and a friend or two can operate multiple Lionel chief trains at same time on a the same track layout.   If you are looking to do this, it is best to setup a layout that has more than one loop and more than the basic power. ( meaning added track, more powerful transformer, some track turnout switches )

The Lionel Chief sets pair a unique remote controls matched to each locomotive, so you could combine two Lionel Chief train tracks and have two people operate two different trains on the same track while maintaining independent control over each train.

  

Lionel Lionel Chief steam sets like all Lionel O gauge and O27 gauge  can operate on just about any Lionel  3 rail O gauge track or other makers of 3 rail O gauge track. You can also use AC-powered transformers and the older 3 rail tubular tinplate track. 

Similar offerings     A very similar offering is the The Pennsylvania Railroad "Keystone Special" train set, complete with a powerful 0-8-0 steam locomotive, three freight cars, and track and power you need to get started.  The locomotive is dressed in realistic Brunswick green and equipped with the LionChief system, the locomotive is run by remote control which gives you easy access to realistic train sounds and announcements and train control at the push of a button. All cars feature the popular Pennsylvania name and markings, and an operating searchlight car is also included to add to the fun. 

 

 Either way you elect to go run the old or get some new trains, or perhaps even do both, you and your family will most certainly enjoy  your old trains and the new trains!

Below you can Check out the wide variety of items in our store. Few are train items as we tend to keep the ones we find and the ones that get listed sell quickly and are very hard to find in good condition.